lørdag, januar 23, 2021

Man undres hvorfor de gider lave PC-spil

Daily Rush Debat Spil Man undres hvorfor de gider lave PC-spil

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  • #0

    Barnebarn
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    Kilde: Taget fra en af udviklerne fra Infinity Wards. (scroll ned til samme overskrift som i citat).

    They Wonder Why People Don’t Make PC Games Any More

    On another PC related note, we pulled some disturbing numbers this past week about the amount of PC players currently playing Multiplayer (which was fantastic). What wasn’t fantastic was the percentage of those numbers who were playing on stolen copies of the game on stolen / cracked CD keys of pirated copies (and that was only people playing online).

    Not sure if I can share the exact numbers or percentage of PC players with you, but I’ll check and see; if I can I’ll update with them. As the amount of people who pirate PC games is astounding. It blows me away at the amount of people willing to steal games (or anything) simply because it’s not physical or it’s on the safety of the internet to do.

    Desværre er der ingen reelle tal i hans udtalelser, men det er nok de færreste, som vil betvivle hans udsagn.

    Og det stiller jo endnu engang spørgsmålet omkring piratspil og hele PC vs. Konsol spilkrigen op til diskussion.

    Den 17. december så vi denne nyhed:
    Salgstallene for Crysis og Unreal Tournament 3 skuffer.

    Som ganske tydeligt taler sit sprog omkring salgstal for ellers store titler til PC’en – men igen uden at kende tallene kan vi nok være helt sikker på, at de reelle salgstal inklusiv piratversioner sikkert er mange gange større.

    Her er en post på et andet forum af en for mig ukendt person – men som siger noget meget rammende i min mening (derfor copy&paste hans post):

    Its not just one thing that has lead to piss poor PC sales, its a combination of a lot of things.

    Piracy, no matter how you want to spin it, is a big problem for PC games, much more so than on consoles. Its a hell of a lot easier to pirate a game on a PC where its pretty much just torrent away.

    PC games are notorious for bugs and all other strange problems due to conflicts on the system. Its simply more reliable to play a game on a console, that you know will work right out of the box, rather than buy a game you hope will even install correctly when you get home to play it.

    Then theres the cost of having a top of the line computer. Its MUCH more expensive to upkeep a computer to play new games than it is on a console, since the console has set hardware which never needs to be upgraded. This forces developers to learn the environment and push the platform for better graphics, rather than the PC path of “well they can play it smoothly on next years hardware.”

    PC developers are relying too much on graphics and not enough on gameplay. Its turned into a graphics war between the unreal engine, crytek engine and the doom3 engine. They just keep releasing higher and higher specs, which require more and more expensive equipment to play. Noone wants to play crysis at 15-20 fps, and then replay it next year when the price of video cards and ram drops. IMO this is a HUGE reason why WoW is so big. Yes its a great game, yes its very polished, but holy shit that game will run on hardware 6+ years old.

    Consoles have caught up to the PC hardware wise. Yes PC games do look better in general, but really only to those who understand AA, AFx16 and ultra high resolutions. On quick glance, or while your playing, the graphics are 99.9% the same.

    The original Unreal game came out less than a year after Goldeneye for the N64, yet Unreal looks 10x better, while having double the framerate. There was no game on a console that could match the PC graphics wise, so it was always the choice for those who wanted top of the line graphics.

    There just isnt that big of a reason to spend so much on a high end PC that looks just about as good as a console game.

    The last reason, which I also think is a HUGE reason PC gaming is declining, is that consoles have caught up to PC’s in another area, that PC’s had a monopoly on, and thats online mulitplayer gaming. With both 360 and PS3 having online play, you dont need a PC anymore to play against people from all over the world, or to get new content via patches or expansions or whatever.

    Basically PC’s have lost all the edges they had against consoles.

    Det eneste han måske undlader er PC’ens styrker omkring MODs til spil (som jeg dog aldrig personligt har brugt, men jeg ved mange gør) og MMORPGs (som dog allerede er så småt på vej til konsollerne)

    Så er der mange af jer, som sværger til at både FPS og RTS også er PC’ens styrker – men det er så efter min mening en gråzone, da begge er konverteret med stor success til konsollerne og f.eks. CoD4, som sælger mangefoldigt på konsollerne i forhold til PC’en.
    Man kan altså diskutere om tabet af den fintfølende mus opvejes af de andre fordele, som man får af konsollen (sofa-effekten, mindre hardware og software besvær, intet opgraderingshelvede etc.)

    Man skal også huske at tænke på forholdet imellem antallet af PC’ere og Konsoller vs. forholdet af salg af PC-spil vs. Konsol-spil…

    Jeg vil her åbne op for diskussionen:

    • Er piratspillene snart kommet så vidt, at de ødelægger det for PC’en?
    • Hvilke tiltag kan der tages for at holde gang i PC-spillene?
      (f.eks. MMORPG modellen med online registrering for at sikre keys)
    • Er du for/imod piratspil?

    Jeg er altid frisk på en diskussion. Vi kan starte med at tage udgangspunkt i det du mener - jeg mener så det modsatte!

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  • #17

    Knuspar
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    Jeg har i den grad downloadet pirat kopier af spil, og gør det for så vidt stadig .. Men hvis jeg mener spillet har potentiale i den forstand at jeg bruger ret meget mere end 10 minutter på det og syntes det er noget jeg må eje. Så køber jeg spillene. Og kan jeg få dem over steam, er det bestemt at foretrække.

    Jeg vil give, husker ikke hvem det var, ret i at hvis de nu launchede nogle ordentlige demos INDEN spilene kom, eller måske endda samtidig med spillets release, og de lod være med at release crap som efterfølgende skal igennem en røvfuld patches for at virke bare nogen lunde anstændigt, så var det en helt anden verden.

    Husker stadig da jeg hentede BF Vietnam i BT butikken ved release for at løber hjem i fuld speed for at finde ud af at det var så slamkodet at det var uspilleligt indtil første patch. Og lige siden syntes jeg det har været et gennemgående issue for især spil fra EA =/ (Phon, kan du ikke lave en interview med en eller anden EA gut omkring det næste gang du løber i dem?)

    Knuspar.dk - Steam Profil

    #18

    Bom
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    #14

    virkede det så også i spil? og hvordan

    #19

    ZcooX
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    Som #13 siger
    Af titler der er afprøvet ulovligt, og derefter købt og betalt, kan nævnes Dawn of war (alle udgivelser) BFME I+II(+lich king exp), Crysis, COD4, The suffering, Doom3, Age of empires III… the list continues… Har en pæn stak derhjemme efterhånden…
    Spil der har været intetsigenede er promte blevet slettet igen.

    Det er endnu en styrke konsollerne har som os PC brugere lider under: Man kan sagtens bytte et konsolspil man har gennemført eller man finder kedeligt, hos feks EB-games… Den går sq ikke med PC spil…

    Personligt syns jeg Steam modellen eller det at alle spil skal registreres online via key eller lignende… Det ville løse pirat problemet… tror jeg…

    (EDIT: Bavestøffer og tyrkfejl)

    We are strong when we are many, here we share every penny. Time is lazy and unyielding. Come and see the Zirkus

    #20

    kongkim
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    Tjaa tror nu ikke pc gaming dør sådan lige nu men det ser heller ikke for godt ud. De skal se at finde en drastisk løsning. Kan godt nok ikke lide Steam men heller det end ingen ting.

    Men syntes der bliver glemt nogen ting så som at PC’en også kan andet end at game. en af grundene er at jeg godt kan lide at ha det hele i et. Kan godt lide at ha min computer hvor jeg kan lave hvad jeg vil og game vis jeg vil.. tror ikke ville få gamet ret meget vis jeg skulle tænde en konsol og sætte en diak i og over og side o sofaen hver gang jeg ville game noget.

    Så håber virkelig de begynder på en løsning snart til pc hvor man ikke rigtig kan game med mindre man er online og har enornlig key. Som steam eller alle de mmo spil der er.
    Selv om det så vilel blive en del dyre at skulle købe det hele

    Men vis det eneder med at gå helt død og ingen løsning kommer.. så vil jeg blive hængene på min gamle pc. og game de gode spil der er. Heller finde en anden hoppy end at gå konsol vejen.

    Im nobody, and as we all know.. nobody is perfect.

    #21

    kongkim
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    Bah fanme trist at læse igen haha bliver sq helt i gårlig humør over sådan noget. Hader virkelig konsoler

    Im nobody, and as we all know.. nobody is perfect.

    #22

    Holger-IST-
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    Hm.. ja det er interessant… jeg tror nu ikke det er pirateri alene… for pirat kopiere spil har eksisteret længe… bare se på de glade Amiga og C64 dage…

    men nu når konsoller kan give næsten ligeså godt grafik som en PC og alle de andre fordele der er nævnt, så er det blevet svært for PC spil… især fordi spil udviklerne/distributørene kan se at der bliver solgt en del flere konsol spil (sikkert især antal solgte kontra antal kopierede) og derfor bliver PC bare nedprioriteret. Som vi ser det med f.eks. Assassins Creed (og Bioshock?) Og det selvom konsol spil ofte er noget dyrere end PC spil (dvs. mere indtjening på dem, da jeg formoder at udviklings omkostningerne er næsten lig hinanden, måske er PC dyrere pga mere forskelligt hardware)

    Men det peger måske også på at måden PC spil bliver solgt på er forkert… de burde måske forkusere mere på at du kan få spillet gratis, men hvis du skal spille online koster det penge (altså du skal så have en cd-key der skal registreres på nettet). Eller måske se på Valve’s måde at gøre det på via Steam… jeg tror helt sikkert det har kunne betale sig for dem… gad godt vide hvordan fordelingen imellem Orange Box solgt over steam vs. fysiske solgte spil er.

    - Holger "A woman drove me to drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank her." - W. C. Fields

    #23

    Jacques
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    Jeg køber altid mine spil. Synes det er fedt at have en ægte kopi med original manual. Gider ikke så noget cracked noget. Så upersonligt

    Bye with a warmly hugs

    #24

    Claes
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    Jeg må også indrømme at jeg ofte har hentet pirat-spil fra nettet.. Og det gør jeg når jeg kan, fordi jeg ganske enkelt ikke har særlig mange penge, men stadig gerne vil spille spillene. Og ja det er jo ikke nogen undskyldning, men jeg ville ikke købe spillet alligevel når jeg ikke har penge til det. Så de har ikk tabt noget på mig i hvert fald.

    Jeg køber dog alle de spil jeg gerne vil spille online. ALLE de spil jeg gerne vil spille online bliver købt.

    #25

    Smenkhare
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    #14: God melding – så begynder det at give mening at spille fx CoD4 på konsol, i min verden

    It became apparent that one reason why the Ice Giants were known as the Ice Giants was because they were, well, giants. The other was that they were made of ice.

    #26

    Barnebarn
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    #14

    Fungerer det som rigtig mus eller overtager musen den analoge styring for controlleren?

    Jeg er altid frisk på en diskussion. Vi kan starte med at tage udgangspunkt i det du mener - jeg mener så det modsatte!

    #27

    Khadgar
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    Når konsoller kommer med mus+keyboard som standard og mods er ligeså nemt som på PC, vil jeg overveje at købe en af de djævelmaskiner

    #28

    Celerun
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    LoL. Jeg har købt 2 spil siden halflife. Halflife 2 og LotrO :p
    Og der er vist ikke et spil jeg har villet ha jeg ikke har “haft”.

    Men er dog også gået over til min elskede x360 o jeg må da indrømme jeg har kastet 6-7000kr efter spil i bare 2007. Gør gladeligt det samme i 2008.

    Jeg ved man nok i ikke bør stå ved det men jeg gør det alligevel.
    Jeg sign’er #24 fuldstændig og der er ingen undskyldning.

    •••☮, ♥ & B.A.S.E•••

    #29

    nicgrinder
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    #14 & #25: Det kan godt være man kan bruge mus og tastatur til sin konsol. Men problemet er at spillende ikke er optimeret til mus, tastatur combien, men til controlleren. Så man får ikke den samme effekt, som hvis det var. Kunne være fedt hvis de gad.
    Ellers håber jeg lidt at pc producenterne tager sig sammen og får lavet den fede mediecenter/gameing/workstation løsning. Det er jo der konsolerne er på vej hen. Ikke at jeg har noget mod konsoller (har selv), men er meget imod lukkede platforme, der tvinger brugeren til at bruge bestemte aplikationer. Nu laver jeg også både musik & film på puteren, så jeger ret krævende.

    #30

    Barnebarn
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    Her er endnu en lang post, som igen kommer igennem en masse interessante punkter:

    (Jeg har markeret de, for mig, mest interessante passager med fed)

    Honestly I think the decline in PC sales has little to do with Piracy and more to do with the rise of console gaming. Look at the absurd attach rate that the X360 is obtaining – I think it’s even at an unmatched high. With there being so little PC exclusive games anymore a lot of people are probably saying fuck it and just buying the console version.

    Just look at COD4’s X360 & PS3 sales vs the PC sales. Those numbers alone say a lot. Look how many people are willing to play a multi-player FPS game on a console over a PC. Why do those people forsake a keyboard and mouse?

    Have console controls become good enough that we just don’t care? That could be a reason. Perhaps they’re adequate for all but the most serious of “professional” gamers. Have the problems that plague the PC market just become too much of a nuisance to deal with? That’s a very possible cause. Are people sick of a lot of money every couple years to stay caught up with PC gaming? I think a lot of people are sick of the expense.

    For me personally there’s a lot of reasons that I won’t touch PC gaming anymore. All three of those reasons above count among them for starters.

    I’ve never been a serious FPS gamer and I play Shooters almost exclusively for the single player experience. The only FPS games I own are Bioshock (which is as much an RPG as it is a shooter in truth), The Darkness, Halo 3 (because everyone buys Halo and drunk co-op is fun), and soon Turok will be added to that list. So really playing competitively with a mouse/kb doesn’t interest me. However, I’m a poor example when it comes to FPS games since I’m not the typical person that buys them. Someone who competitively plays COD4 on the X360 would have to tell you their reasons for purchasing it.

    So there’s touching off on the controls issue. For single player FPS games a gamepad simply is adequate enough for me to get by playing them. And for nearly every other game type I’d plug my X360 controller into my PC and use it over a mouse/keyboard without question. Action? Adventure? RPG? Racing? Flight? Arcade games? Those are all superior on a gamepad for me without question. And then you have Puzzle games and the like such as Puzzle Quest where the controls are pretty much irrelevant.

    Of course, there is the problem of Strategy games. For turn based it really doesn’t matter – we’ve been happily playing them with a gamepad since Final Fantasy Tactics and hell you can go back even farther to Ogre Battle and the like. Also to add on to that there’s Civilization Revolution coming up and from all accounts they’ve managed to do a great job making the control scheme really friendly to a gamepad. For Real Time Strategy games on the other hand it’s still an issue though. They’re almost wholly exclusive to the PC market and no one’s really spent time working out an intuitive control scheme for consoles with them yet. However, there are a couple upcoming console RTS games that claim they’ve come up with an incredibly friendly, intuitive, and quick control scheme for them.

    On to problem number two: The problems that plague the PC. Driver issues, bugs, constant patching, and horribly intrusive anti-piracy measures. Does anyone want to deal with these anymore? I don’t and it’s a huge factor in why I’ve stopped playing PC games. I simply do not want to deal with it. Why buy something on the PC and deal with all of that when I can just open the case of a console game, pop it in, and I’m good to go for playing it without any hassle?

    And truth be told, I pirated a rather large amount of PC games back in the day. But at this point I’d rather pay money and buy a console game and not ever have to even think about dealing with that stuff. I think that’s saying a lot about how much of a problem the problems have become.

    Issue number three: I am tired of constantly upgrading my PC to stay in the game. I may have the money to do so, but I’m really tired of spending it. With a console you spend a few hundred bucks and you are set for a good 5 years. With a PC I’d spend probably around 1500 and be maybe set for 2 years. So, enough with that. My PC is now good enough to make World of Warcraft fly in raids at 1680×1050 with maxed out AA/AF and that’s all I care about until World of Starcraft comes out. At that point I’ll probably upgrade again, but no other game is going to cause me to at this point. Add on to that that I’ve never been one to care about being on the extreme bleeding edge of technology and that consoles look more than good enough for me right now (well, with the X360/PS3 anyways).
    Plus, in the next generation it’s entirely possible that we’re going to reach the photo-realistic plateau and it’s going to be increasingly hard to care about the hardware advantage of PCs.

    Oh, and there’s one more final important issue – Xbox Live. I’m not much for multiplayer gaming, but when I do participate in it it’s nice to be able to just jump into games with no real hassle. Live is without question the smoothest multiplayer experience that you can have and you don’t have to deal with the annoyances of cheating and anti-cheating stuff on top of that. Plus yes, Achievements matter. I like having a universal system for seeing who is playing what, what they’ve done in games, and having people see what I’ve done in games. It brings in an extra and important layer of the social aspect of being in part of a gaming community.

    So, there you have it. I simply won’t spend money on my PC anymore until it starts breaking down and I simply have no reason to continue purchasing PC games outside of some extremely rare situations (such as Blizzard games). There is simply no incentive for me to play PC games anymore and I’d wager that a lot of people have similar concerns in one area or another or even perhaps all of them.

    I’ll now pose a question once again – why is a game that is primarily a competitive multi-player FPS game, Call of Duty 4, hitting nearly 5 million sold for consoles (3.2 X360, 1.6 PS3) and yet is nothing but piss in a bucket when it comes to PC sales? I think that’s an important question for the PC gaming industry to answer.

    Specielt punkterne omkring XboxLive er interessante.

    Det at man uden besvær kan joine multiplayer games – invitere venner – og at der følger microfon med til næsten alle Xbox 360 gør, at multiplayer delen bare bliver så meget nemmere, hurtigere og sjovere.

    Og alle de små irriterende ting, som vi slipper for – bugs/patches og specielt cheaters (som der også nævnes).

    Måske er det ikke bare “piraterne” der ødelægger festen…

    Måske er konsollerne (Xbox360, PS3 og tildels Wii) nu bare blevet så meget sjovere og nemmere at spille på, at de virkelig sparker røv i forhold til PC’en…

    For fanden da, det er jo det som har været WoW store success set vs. de tungere drenge fra EverQuest og Vanguard… WoW har bare været så meget nemmere og sjovere at gå til imod det mere “professionelle” og “hardcore” EverQuest2.

    Er det det samme trick som konsollerne bruger over for PC’en???

    Jeg er altid frisk på en diskussion. Vi kan starte med at tage udgangspunkt i det du mener - jeg mener så det modsatte!

    #31

    Wayfarer
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    #3 personligt tror jeg også selv at det nok bliver steam modellen der kommer til at redde pcen i sidste ende… Men en ting er sikkert. Jeg vil aldrig købe en konsol, og hvis det betyder at jeg ikke ville kunne game mere, so be it (selvom jeg godt gamer 3 timer om dagen)

    I believe our future depends powerfully on how well we understand this cosmos in which we float like a mote of dust in the morning sky. -Carl Sagan

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